PDA

View Full Version : SAS for my Chevy and more


joshman
08-30-2012, 10:25 PM
By now I think everyone knows I killed the IFS front axle at Derrik's send-off
http://www.hardrockcrawlers.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=82&pictureid=479
I literally broke it in half
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-80HOm0RM1eU/UEAEKfPnjTI/AAAAAAAAAHI/LWzdHnSSMpY/s512/20120812_185006.jpg
So I'm putting a Dana 44 with all the goodies under it
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UOe1xDp2fNc/UEADcYbNlDI/AAAAAAAAAGk/xsWfe7CtblM/s640/20120830_195603.jpg

The progress:

One of the piles of brackets from the old lift
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mCAIYMPtZlo/UEAEU3NXuII/AAAAAAAAAHU/GOWh2JNxGWE/s640/20120812_184948.jpg
Cleaned off the frame rails of useless bracketry. Also mocked up the new spring hangers only to realize I needed to pull the exhaust to move the cat back. The stock front cross-member will probably get cut out after the front spring hanger is welded in.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bIRkU4nTE3E/UEAEeHmhqFI/AAAAAAAAAHc/n5luPRWTRR0/s640/20120812_184920.jpg
and plated it with 3/16ths
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yCZHW5-zwH4/UEADz2EsxJI/AAAAAAAAAG4/ZAPvcziSvKk/s640/20120830_195444.jpg
I also tapped the steering box, now to rebuild it. I hope to figure out spring placement this weekend. I'm pretty sure the brackets will get reworked some to fit the 52" springs and to keep the lift at about what i was before.

Jeepster
08-30-2012, 10:34 PM
Progress looks good.
Now get back to work.
Turkey run is just around the corner.

Bigbear
08-31-2012, 07:41 AM
WOW,

Thats quite an undertaking. Looking good, nice to see the 44 with those RCV's. Should of got a 60 you will end up with one soon ,LOL.

beer30
08-31-2012, 08:21 AM
Nice work Josh. Can't wai to see it.

slorocco
08-31-2012, 09:17 AM
Lookin good man.

joshman
09-04-2012, 09:38 PM
No Jack Stands! :D
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mH5qGaCvBQk/UEamLMTmeCI/AAAAAAAAAH8/CZ6OYfQvWkg/s640/20120904_195016.jpg
Hopefully it settles in a bit more once the winch and bumper get back on.

Perches and rear hangers are just tacked in place. Got this for the shackle angle. I think it looks good, though I think the pinion needs to go up. The t-case output is just above and behind the x-member in the upper right. Not sure what this will do to the caster or highsteer.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GcKnFE_3v_g/UEamDKk7fSI/AAAAAAAAAH0/o4qGNqwokqI/s640/20120904_192730.jpg

And I need some welding advice. Is my Hobart 180 suitable for welding the spring perch to the cast pumpkin? I've read some say a nickel rod in a stick welder and some have just gone at it with a mig.

Jeepster
09-04-2012, 11:21 PM
For the front axle. Worry more about the caster and camber. If the Pinion angle is so bad you can't drive it I have the tools to turn the knuckles. Have not actually done it yet but I have the tools.

As for welding to the cast case.
I have done it both way's key is to get it hot slow and cool slow.
I have a stick welder if you need to borrow it.

Looks really good. You are coming along quick. Wish I had more time to get up there and help.

joshman
09-05-2012, 01:13 PM
As for welding to the cast case.
I have done it both way's key is to get it hot slow and cool slow.

How would you recommend to do this? Besides building a small fire under the axle, I only have a heat gun and a small propane torch for soldering copper pipe. Neither one of those seem big enough.

Jeepster
09-05-2012, 07:33 PM
How would you recommend to do this? Besides building a small fire under the axle, I only have a heat gun and a small propane torch for soldering copper pipe. Neither one of those seem big enough.

You can manage the heat as you weld or barrow my Oxy/ Acetylene kit or just a good hot day.

slorocco
09-06-2012, 07:15 AM
The spring perches are a relatively small area. I would think you could manage with a good propane torch. If you want more heat get some MAPP gas, I think that burns a bit hotter.

joshman
09-07-2012, 08:49 PM
I found this page on Lincoln's site.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/welding-cast-iron-detail.aspx
I'm going to try the no pre-heat method for the perch.

joshman
09-08-2012, 09:34 PM
Back to the caster and pinion angle. Caster is about +4 degrees and the pinion is pointed up 6 degrees. The driveshaft would be at 20 degrees. Also the t-case is 4 degrees downhill. So, what are the thoughts on running it like this?

Jeepster
09-08-2012, 10:27 PM
I say weld it up and give it a try on the road.

Here's a good article that covers Caster, Camber and toe.
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

slorocco
09-10-2012, 09:31 AM
when you say the t-case is "4 deg downhill" you mean it's pointing down 4deg to the front?? I would think that's unusual. I thought most set ups have the engine tilted down to the rear, which would make the rest of the drivetrain also tilted the same way.

Anyway, if the t-case is 4 deg down at the front and the front axle is 6 deg up at the rear then they are only about 2 deg off from being parallel. You might even be able to get away without a double cardan driveshaft.

Like Dion said weld it up and run it.

joshman
09-10-2012, 12:07 PM
No, down hill as in front of truck to back, since the pinion and driveshaft are both pointed uphill using the same reference. I welded it up this weekend so I'll see how it works.

joshman
10-22-2012, 01:49 PM
An update for you guys. The front is mostly together. I need to plumb the arb, order and install shocks and driveshaft. Pulled the rear axle and springs out. Shackle flip got installed. Need to put arb in the rear and swap brakes and axles to 8-lug.

I have a shock question. Would 14" travel shocks in the front be overkill? I believe its set up for ~8-9" of droop. Also should shocks be mounted vertically or top angled towards the shackle end of the spring? For the rear should I keep the stock mounting (one shock on front and back of axle angled toward rear or front, repectively) or inboard them?

Gunny
10-22-2012, 07:47 PM
Front shocks- Depends on the flex you can get out of the front axle. You don't want to use your shocks as a limit strap.

Rear shocks- Front/Back doesn't matter, just get them above the bottom of the axles.

Angle- Doesn't matter in our type of wheeling. Just get them in where they will fit.

joshman
10-28-2012, 07:51 PM
Small set back today. Axle shafts from the donor axle are half inch short so I can't get the c-clips on. Started to regear the donor axle and noticed that the pinion bearing races have some pitting from rust, as does the ring gear. Apparently I had been running with some water in the diff which I noticed when draining. Is this a problem and I need to replace them?

Jeepster
10-28-2012, 08:13 PM
Small set back today. Axle shafts from the donor axle are half inch short so I can't get the c-clips on. Started to regear the donor axle and noticed that the pinion bearing races have some pitting from rust, as does the ring gear. Apparently I had been running with some water in the diff which I noticed when draining. Is this a problem and I need to replace them?

If they are Pitted you need to replace them.
Should be standard sizes that you can pick up Bearings and races at Napa.
Good Luck.

joshman
10-28-2012, 08:21 PM
The ring gear also has some pitting and had a few heavily rusted spots that i cleaned up. Do you think its still OK to run?

Jeepster
10-28-2012, 09:07 PM
Ring Gear and Pinion should be fine.

joshman
11-18-2012, 05:41 PM
I need some advice. I can't bleed the rear brakes. I have a pressure bleeder and can do the front just fine but nothing out the rear. The service manual says to hold in a pin on the proportioning valve. I did that but still nothing. Also fluid dripped out of the pin, not sure if thats right. I also just tried pumping the pedal with the bleeder open. I never saw evidence of any fluid coming out. The level in the master cylinder never dropped. I'm beginning to think the proportioning valve I got from the junkyard is junk. Anybody see what I'm missing?

Jeepster
11-18-2012, 05:51 PM
Are the Bleeders clogged? Pull them and run a small drill bit or allen down in it to push the stuff out. Then Blow out with compressed air.

joshman
11-18-2012, 05:54 PM
I doubt they are. They are brand new and came with the new wheel cylinders

Jeepster
11-18-2012, 06:26 PM
I doubt they are. They are brand new and came with the new wheel cylinders


Take one of them all the way out. Should get some fluid running out. (Gravity Bleed)
If you get nothing. Pump it a few times. Might have blockage or crimp in the old lines somewhere.

Keep it Simple.

joshman
11-18-2012, 07:22 PM
Right rear bleeder has been cracked open since i started trying again this after noon (a couple ours by now). All dry. I removed it and 15 minutes later still dry. Also pumped the pedal a few more times. Nothing. Left the bleeder off and will go look at it again later. I've replaced lines from about the firewall to the axle and blew out the lines that are on the axle with compressed air before installing them. I'm thinking about buying a new proportioning valve and taking the one I pulled back to Brandywine. I cross threaded an inlet on the original. Its the only thing that is different from before other than the MC, which bench bled fine.

Jeepster
11-18-2012, 08:14 PM
Yeah. Something is bad. Crack the lines open at the output of the proportioning valve. Like you said. Bet that's where your problem is. especially since that is different than before. Good luck.

joshman
11-20-2012, 09:22 PM
New proportioning valve let me bleed the brakes. Now hopefully bleeding the power steering goes slightly better.

Jeepster
11-20-2012, 09:25 PM
Yeah for the brakes. Power steering is easy.
Fill it with fluid. Cycle a couple times with engine off.
Turn wheel all the way to the left.
Refill. Start engine. Turn right back off. Refill.
Repeat. Until you don't have to refill.
Warning will try to bubble out and overflow as air is pushed out.
Do not just crank it up and let it run. Air in the pump is the worst thing for it.

Gunny
11-21-2012, 06:26 AM
I like bleeding the steering while it's on Jack stands, or weight off front wheels. (makes it easier to turn without power)
Fill pump and start turning the wheel slowly left and right.
Check pump frequently.
You can get almost all the air out this way, before you start the motor.

Another way to bleed the pump is to put an air ratchet with a hex head to spin the pump. Much slower than the engine turning, but will help get the air out before you put the belt on and start it.

And the last trick I learned one summer in band camp.........

joshman
12-22-2012, 10:04 PM
Took the truck for a drive today. I need to re-center the steering wheel as it is turned left about 45 degrees to go straight. When I pulled a u-turn on 210, I realized my turning radius is worse. :doh: I think I need a longer pitman arm to get the knuckles to hit the stops. There looked to be a 3/8" gap at full lock. The brake pedal seems low after I start the truck. Any reason for a hydroboost to do this? And I still need to get lines at the master cylinder to stop weeping. :butthead:

Jeepster
12-23-2012, 10:34 AM
Took the truck for a drive today. I need to re-center the steering wheel as it is turned left about 45 degrees to go straight. When I pulled a u-turn on 210, I realized my turning radius is worse. :doh: I think I need a longer pitman arm to get the knuckles to hit the stops. There looked to be a 3/8" gap at full lock. The brake pedal seems low after I start the truck. Any reason for a hydroboost to do this? And I still need to get lines at the master cylinder to stop weeping. :butthead:

Longer pit-man arm will definitely help with the turning.

The position of the pedal is based off of the length of the shaft used with the booster. Some are adjustable some are not. As long as you have full pedal throw you don't have a problem.
Get the weeping stopped and see how well it stops.

joshman
01-07-2013, 10:24 PM
Does anyone know what would have a pitman arm that is 7" - 7.5" long? My current one is 6.5" long and is a drop arm for a 94-02 dodge. I've seen waggy arms listed from 6.5" to 7". Anybody have one they can measure?

slorocco
01-08-2013, 06:29 AM
I seem to remember the Scout II pitman arm being pretty long. Had to cut one down to work on my 109.

joshman
01-09-2013, 12:03 AM
I seem to remember the Scout II pitman arm being pretty long. Had to cut one down to work on my 109.

I think I read they were like 9". How much did you cut it down? That might be another option.

slorocco
01-09-2013, 06:59 AM
I think I took off about an inch and a half, maybe two. I also had a strap welded around the end of it for reinforcement after I reamed it for the tie rod end.

joshman
03-02-2013, 06:32 PM
Since I cracked my t-case during the winter run, I've decided on trying to avoid cast aluminum where I can. This means a ford 205 is going in. I found one on craigslist that i'll hopefully pickup tomorrow. I just need to figure out the best way to put it behind my 4L60. AA makes a kit but requires me to basically rebuild the transmission. I could switch to a GM input in the 205 and use a splined coupler. Or maybe a doubler. Thoughts? Other ideas?

Jeepster
03-02-2013, 08:30 PM
What are the options for Doublers?
203/205?
Other?

joshman
03-02-2013, 10:04 PM
I was thinking more along the line of this doubler if i didn't screw up the planetary gears in mine. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/motor-tranny-t-case-performance/1075295-billet-planetary-doubler-699-box4rocks.html

Jeepster
03-02-2013, 10:57 PM
Looks like a nice unit and for a little over 700 not a bad price.

Jeepin Hokie
03-04-2013, 07:52 AM
what about doubling your vehicle count.

buy a cheap JEEP :)

YJHAMMER11
03-05-2013, 08:04 PM
Could be time to look at a cheap jeep. Scavenge the truck drive and per train.


Or look at an atlas. I think this is a good investment. Simple one unit

My 3 cents

joshman
06-08-2013, 10:10 PM
A little update. The 205 that is going in the truck has been twin-sticked and adapted for the speedo sensor. Also been trying to get full steering in the truck. The latest attempt involves using a scout II pitman arm and the box re-positioned. I need a reamer to get the tie rod end to fit though. Does any one have one I could borrow? Or know a shop that could do this?

Jeepster
06-09-2013, 07:58 AM
If no one has one.
Speed way motors has them but they are not cheap.

tapered reamer
(http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Tapered-Ball-Joint-Reamer-7-Degree,2918.html?utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=CSEGoogle&utm_campaign=CSEGOOGLE&CAWELAID=1268470166&catargetid=1784208710&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CO2h09v01rcCFcqZ4AodMEIAPQ)

rocko1971
06-09-2013, 01:22 PM
Believe it or not the Snap-On truck has the 7 degree reamer for 40 bucks. I remember buying one off the truck when I needed one. I have since given it away but just another option.

joshman
06-11-2013, 08:40 PM
That's good to know about the Span-on truck. Would the weld-in inserts be a bad idea on a pitman arm? I'm talking about this (http://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/Tapered-Bushing-GM-Tierod/3163/3204/4086).

Jeepster
06-11-2013, 10:12 PM
That's good to know about the Span-on truck. Would the weld-in inserts be a bad idea on a pitman arm? I'm talking about this (http://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/Tapered-Bushing-GM-Tierod/3163/3204/4086).

I don't think those are weld in.
I think you just put them in and they the TRE pressure holds them in.

There is a similar product used to do the TRE flip on the Jeeps. It seems to work well.

kellyjeep
06-11-2013, 10:55 PM
I have used the inserts with no problems and I have a reamer you can borrow.

joshman
06-12-2013, 11:27 AM
I have used the inserts with no problems and I have a reamer you can borrow.

Can you bring the reamer to the meeting tonight?

slorocco
06-12-2013, 12:09 PM
I've got a great machinist if you really want one. This guy is good. He's over in Calvert county just north of the Solomons Island area. Harry Langley, MCS Machine Shop, 950 Coster Road, Lusby, MD 410-326-2001

kellyjeep
06-12-2013, 08:54 PM
Sorry I did not make it tonight. You can stop by any time or I can bring it to work and we can catch up?

joshman
06-12-2013, 10:05 PM
Bringing it to work would work if I worked at PAX. Or down that way. I'm at Indian Head. I may have a lead on one from the machinist I use for work who used to race dirt track cars. Other wise I'll find some time to get down your way.

kellyjeep
06-17-2013, 09:27 PM
Give Me a call if you need it. 301-481-1130

joshman
07-11-2013, 06:29 PM
John, can you get that reamer to Dion before PAJeeps?

kellyjeep
07-13-2013, 03:00 PM
Give me a call 301-481-1130

joshman
10-28-2013, 10:05 PM
So apparently I also round some splines back in the February run. :doh:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MT_5aD0xU7M/Um3I3m84hxI/AAAAAAAAAgQ/Y9f7fLDTqNY/s512/20131027_173601.jpg
The stub shaft aparently worked about halfway out. I only noticed it slipping when I was messing witht eh steering at full lock. It turned by hand fine going straight ahead. Other side is fine. Sent RCV an email to see if this warranty-able or not.

As for some progress, steering box is moved forward with a scout arm so I now have full lock to lock steering (and maybe more). Hydro assist ram needs installed. Is it OK to weld the bracket to the top of the pumpkin? If not then where?

Jeepster
10-28-2013, 10:18 PM
So apparently I also round some splines back in the February run. :doh:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MT_5aD0xU7M/Um3I3m84hxI/AAAAAAAAAgQ/Y9f7fLDTqNY/s512/20131027_173601.jpg
The stub shaft aparently worked about halfway out. I only noticed it slipping when I was messing witht eh steering at full lock. It turned by hand fine going straight ahead. Other side is fine. Sent RCV an email to see if this warranty-able or not.

As for some progress, steering box is moved forward with a scout arm so I now have full lock to lock steering (and maybe more). Hydro assist ram needs installed. Is it OK to weld the bracket to the top of the pumpkin? If not then where?

WOW on the stub shaft.

As for the Hydro ram. Welding to the cast is always a little tricky. It would probably be better to build a small truss over the pumpkin and weld to that.
Remember you want to keep the ram in line with the tie rod it's moving with. Any angle difference will cause twisting or binding.

There is a hydraulic Brake at marks we can bend the pieces for a small truss.

joshman
10-29-2013, 07:40 PM
How would you do a truss on a leaf spring axle with one pad in the pumpkin? Tried google but nothing. Could do a tower on the other side of the axle like this one from WFO http://www.wfoconcepts.com/Uploads/ProductImages/DSCN6344%20(1)%20300x225.jpg

Jeepster
10-30-2013, 07:59 AM
Something like that bracket will work.

joshman
11-01-2013, 05:43 PM
Heard back from RCV. Apparently this is a known issue. Their solution is to drill the CV and stub to insert a roll pin to hold the stub in better than the clip on the axle. So I get to pull the CVs out and send them in, fun fun.

joshman
11-19-2013, 09:40 PM
Working on installing the doubler. and noticed the shift fork in the 205 is worn pretty good. As in about a 1/4 the way thru. Is it ok to fill it in with weld and smooth out or should I buy a new one? And in case your wondering why I have the 205 this far apart to install a doubler, this one replaces the 205's input shaft so the lenght is even shorter.

Jeepster
11-20-2013, 07:34 AM
Working on installing the doubler. and noticed the shift fork in the 205 is worn pretty good. As in about a 1/4 the way thru. Is it ok to fill it in with weld and smooth out or should I buy a new one? And in case your wondering why I have the 205 this far apart to install a doubler, this one replaces the 205's input shaft so the lenght is even shorter.

Would like to see a picture of the shift fork.
Some of them are cast.
The only place they should be wearing is where the inside pads ride in the grove on the gear.
What does the gear look like?

joshman
11-20-2013, 06:04 PM
Ask and ye shall recieve
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G-orVHHsa1E/Uo0-ZttASyI/AAAAAAAAAg0/Pr5t_Fq9P3Y/s512/20131120_175440.jpg
The other side is as bad. And yes it is cast. The coupler ring looks good as does the "gear" it slides on. Debating if I should pull the front fork to get a closer look at it.

Jeepster
11-20-2013, 06:37 PM
Ask and ye shall recieve
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G-orVHHsa1E/Uo0-ZttASyI/AAAAAAAAAg0/Pr5t_Fq9P3Y/s512/20131120_175440.jpg
The other side is as bad. And yes it is cast. The coupler ring looks good as does the "gear" it slides on. Debating if I should pull the front fork to get a closer look at it.

That doesn't look bad. That looks like where they Milled the Cast down in the critical spots to meet tolerance.
Put it back in, Grease it up and run it.

joshman
11-20-2013, 07:05 PM
Found this on ebay
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/LOW-MILEAGE-NP-205-SHIFT-FORKS-SLIDERS-FOR-OVERHAUL-REBUILD-NP205-GM-FORD-DODGE-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqF,!mEFHdIVvH-gBR6sZqTwGg~~60_57.JPG
Mine looks a lot like the bad one in one of the pics. Found the forks themselves for $21 elsewhere

Jeepster
11-20-2013, 10:08 PM
There you go then. Buy it.
Good luck.

joshman
03-17-2014, 04:16 PM
I'm about ready to get the t-case in the truck but I can use a hand. I plan on doing the Saturday March 29. I'll probably start around 9am. I live in Indian Head and its about an hour from PAX. Does any one have a tranny jack or something similar that would work for lifting the t-case that I could borrow? Let me know if you can help and I'll PM you directions. Thanks.

Gunny
03-18-2014, 08:18 AM
Pretty sure Mark has a floor jack mounted transmission lift. Sorry, but I won't be around that weekend. You are welcome to use the lift and a jack if you need them.

sunburned
03-18-2014, 11:04 AM
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-motorcycle-atv-jack/p-00950190000P

Buy that, then return it after use?

Jeepster
03-19-2014, 09:17 AM
I will be there to give you a hand.
I have a Motorcycle jack like the one pictured and will bring it.
We may need some 4x4's or 6x6's to get a little extra height. Your truck sets up there a bit.

Also was talking with gunny about cross member options. he reminded me of what we did on T-rex.

We cut a 1/4 Steel plate to sandwich between the Transmission and T-Case. This spreads out the load and makes a nice place to attach the crossmember to with Polly bushing at the Frame.

Just remember you want the Engine mounts and Transmission mounts to be comparable in movement and stiffness.

joshman
03-19-2014, 12:44 PM
I've got lanscaping timbers, which are 3-4" tall. And who knows what else. I think the transmission mount is already at the rear. It might be on the adapter for the t-case. All the mounts will be new, stock rubber ons.

joshman
03-28-2014, 03:56 PM
So I'm getting over a bout of strep throat and not sure how much I can do tomorrow. I might be functioning more on Sunday but not sure. Not sure if anyone but Dion was coming over. Would anybody be able to come over next Sunday to help out?

beer30
03-29-2014, 09:18 AM
I can help out next sunday

joshman
04-04-2014, 11:07 AM
So I'm feeling better and do plan on still doing this Sunday. Start time will be between 9 and 10. My address is 65 Mattingly Ave in Indian Head. Cell is 217649936four if you get lost. If anyone has some smaller pieces of steel that would be good for a tcase mount, that would be good. I only have some 2x4 box tube and some 3/16" and 1/4" plate.

Jeepster
04-05-2014, 09:59 PM
See you in the morning.

beer30
04-06-2014, 05:22 PM
Sorry Josh. I got called I to work.

joshman
12-31-2015, 03:37 PM
Update from my Turkey run breakage. I stripped the splines on another RCV stub shaft. I sheared the roll pin holding it in before it walked out and stripped. One is supposedly on the way, so hopefully it is waiting when I get home.

Had anyone ever had problems with Spindle nuts loosening? I'm wondering if that is my problem. I've always tightened then to the specs I found in a dana 44 manual I found online. That manual might be stickied here somewhere too. They never seem super tight when I go to remove them. Any thoughts? I've thought about buying the stage 8 locking Spindle nuts, but haven't decided if that is worth it yet.